Rob: Hey Brian, Rob and Carrie here from Alternate Ending. How you doing?

Brian: I’m good, man. How are you?

Rob: Oh, we’re doing so well. We’re so excited to be talking to you. Thanks so much for taking the time and congratulations on your directorial debut “Spontaneous”.

Brian: Oh, thank you so much. Thanks for wanting to talk.

Carrie: Yeah, I honestly, we saw it, I guess it’s been since last week. And we talk about it every day. We’ve been thinking about it days and now weeks later.  I’m a bit of a catastrophizer.

Rob: See, I’ll stop you right there. Brian, as a writer, I tried to get Carrie not to say that. Is that a word? Is catastrophizing a word?

Carrie: Catastrophizing or catastrophize.

Rob: Okay.

Brian: I feel like, you know, it might not have been last year, but I feel like it’s very valid word now.

Carrie: See. Thank you for the validation.

Brian: It would could kill at Scrabble, too, if you could get that to work.

Carrie: Can you imagine those Z’s number letters, that’s like at least 14 letters, I think, too. But for me, it was so relevant and personally relevant to watch. And I do sort of wake up every day with that feeling of today could be my last so to see that come to life in your movie was like, kind of a trip, but something that we’re so glad we saw.

Brian: Oh, cool. Yeah, I’ve really mixed feelings about how accidentally on the nose, the movie has become. But I hope, for the most part, that people administer it as opposed to just feel like, it was made last week.

Rob: Oh, it’s extremely relevant. And timing is everything. I kind of wish you hadn’t released COVID in order to make it even more relevant. I mean, I feel like that was a big risk.

Brian: It was part of the marketing campaign.

Carrie: Big marketing play there. That’s good.

Rob: Brian you’ve mashed up two of my personal favorite genres in what is a dark comedy, a teen genre, and peppered in just this message of an existential crisis that’s also extremely relevant, given the exploding teenager epidemic that we’re all facing right now.

Brian: Yeah. It a trip, man. I’m still like, kind of wrapping my head around. All of that, too. You know, it’s funny, there’s, I don’t know, if you guys are in California or not, but, they just started playing these commercials that I’m like, this little like cartoon commercial about the, I can’t remember now because it was about the fires or about the pandemic. But it’s almost word for word with the little cartoon commercial in Spontaneous is where it like starts off. “And it’s like, we know, these are challenging times…” Like every day, like Katherine or Charlie or I will just be like, hey, this thing happened, which is very, just like, the worst viral marketing possible.

Carrie: Or the best, either one. I don’t know.

Brian: Yeah.

Rob: Your government PSA’s in Spontaneous were so fun, so amusing.

Carrie: Oh My God.

Rob: So, amusing. But again, just because, amusing because of how real life sometimes takes the form of art.

Carrie: Yeah, I know, I completely agree. So, on that note, so spontaneous is adapted from Aaron Starmer’s novel. Is there something that you can say, sort of, I guess, drew you to the material? Or, you know, I guess what got you excited about it? Or a little bit about that?

Brian: Of course, yeah. So, the very first scene in the movie is basically the very first page of the novel, even, like, a bunch of the dialogue is pretty much straight from that. And, you know, it’s a hell of a way to start something, where it’s just, you know, you’re in a classroom and, and someone explodes, and, you have this very specific and, unusual voice kind of that guides you through this experience. So, you know, obviously, you know, when I got sent the book, The logline really jumps out at you. And then like, that first page, I was like, Oh, this is, you know, how can I not read the next two hundred pages of this thing as soon as possible. And then, what Aaron did was so, genius I can’t take any credit for because I think, you know, just the idea of spontaneous combustion. It’s such a fun sci-fi idea, especially the idea that it could just happen out of nowhere, but I think like, narratively, it’s really hard to kind of figure out like, how to use that in a movie because it feels like you can’t really make like a sci-fi thriller out of it because there’s no preamble. It’s not like you get a fever and then fourty five minutes later, you’ll explode because then that’s not spontaneous at all. So it felt like, he kind of figured out the perfect home for this idea. That is, you know, like, everyone in the world kind of has heard about some kind of spontaneous combustion happening. And you him transposing that idea into a high school setting, just felt so right. And, it was the perfect, weird cocktail, and then, reading through his book, I was on the phone with him yesterday, and I really think the movie is kind of this diet version of his book, where I think most of my job, the adaptation was figuring out what to leave out, as opposed to what needed to be changed. And a lot of adaptations feel very unwieldy, as movies, but I think part of what’s nice, too, about the high school genre is that you are saddled with that kind of start of the school year / end of the school year structure. So, everything plays out as if this movie ended at Christmas, it would be very disappointing. You want to see how the school year ends kind of deal. So, I think, getting to work from what Aaron’s started, and kind of figuring out how to remix it into a movie. As soon as I finished the book, I think it was really competitive, I think, when the book was out in galley form. And so I got the book, had to read it that night, and the next morning, I was on the phone with Aaron, which is a big,  it’s like a big life kind of adjustment where one day, I don’t know, this thing exists, and then the next day, I’m trying to commit, two years of my life to making it.

Rob: Well, it’s a cocktail that went down extremely smooth.

Brian: Yeah, I thought, you know, the book is a was just so undeniable and getting into, or not getting into like, the spoilery stuff, but you know, the kind of the terms that the book and the movie takes in that third act is really.

Carrie: Heart wrenching.

Rob: Well, and that’s where you balance the tone so well, because I would say two third of the movie is, despite knowing what’s happening, there’s a lot of humor in here. And I always, regardless of the genre of the film, like I always look for humor to ground me. And so, I feel grounded in this in this reality that you’ve created. And then I became so invested in these characters, each of these characters and, worried, for, for all of them.

Carrie: I was like, no, not have no, not her. Like I the whole time, there’s this anticipation of like, no, like, you’re just cringing because you are waiting. And it’s just one of those, like, I had people picked out that I was like, please don’t do this to me, please.

Brian: Oh, yeah. No, it’s fun. And a challenge, right? Because it’s one of the things that I really wanted to avoid. When we were showing the movie to people before, there’s any marketing and I think like the, you know, the trailer thing kind of gives you a really good sense of the tone, but it’s really easy to hear the logline and things you’re going to watch a horror movie.

Carrie: Yeah.

Brian: And it very specifically is not. And I think being a part of that was knowing that this very violent, extreme thing could happen, but what was the most palatable way so that you’re still having an enjoyable movie experience and not feeling like there’s someone with a balloon directly in front of your face, like trying to pop it the whole time?

Carrie: Yep.

Brian: I think would feel excruciating and horrible. As a viewing experience. I think it ties into Katherine’s character, where she’s really trying to, not deal with what’s going on and just kind of trying to push it down, and ignore it and using every message you can get our hands on to ignore this kind of realization about that mortality is real.

Carrie: Yeah

Brian: So, that was part of the challenge of putting the movie together, knowing inevitably, you’re going to have that anticipation. The parts of the movie where that anticipation is played with but it’s, there’s never, like, a fake out moment. There aren’t really any jump scares. They’re surprising, but it’s not the kind of thing where I wanted people to be uncomfortable. And then, in third act, without getting too spoilery, it was like, how do we really deal with the darkness without merging into a really downer kind of movie. So, it’s like, what are the most fun ways that we can have characters be really depressed and messed up?

Carrie:  Yeah.

Brain:    So that it feels like, we’re cheapening out on, the trauma that’s going on, which is, it’s a real tonal, tightrope. But you know, Aaron really strung that rope to begin with. And so for me, it was just figuring out how to balance on that without going too far into trauma or horror and not going too far into frivolousness where I think, because it’s, kids die. And, try the movie I think try –

Carrie:  You kind of forget that, I mean, a little bit along the way, you’re like, “Oh, this are kids.”I mean like, your [Chuckles].

Brian:    Yeah, the idea is, hopefully, it’s never too you know, funny, you know, all these kids, you know, have parents, have friend.

Carrie:  Right.

Brian:    Have you know, the, you see people kind of, grieving after all them. So it never becomes, like….think in the tense there’s a couple more fun parts to that. [Chuckling]. But I think having you know, that balance of it’s not horror and kids are dying, but it’s an enjoyable movie going, experience.

Carrie:  Yeah.

Brian:    You know, it’s not, you know, Elephant or something, you know, it’s –

Carrie:  Yeah.

Brian:    And it’s also not, I love Heather’s, but I have seen that movie is, you know, I think a step broader, and more satirical than, than we are, especially about a death. And so, you know, really finding that balance where it matters that, you know, these people are dying, it’s leaving lifelong trauma. But the movie is not a traumatic experience.

Carrie:  Yeah, it’s definitely not and I, everything that you’re saying right now is exactly how it feels to the viewer, it feels. Yeah, it feels like, this tightrope. Like, we can feel you walking that line, of like, making sure that we’re not totally devastated, but that we’re getting the message but that we’re having fun, but that we’re still getting, you know it all together. And I feel like, we feel that and I it felt like to us also the, when you have an amazingly star cast, on this. So you have Katherine Langford, you have Charlie Plummer, Piper Parebo, Haley Law, like, the list goes on and on, but you got to come together for this, which I feel like, they also add to that sort of, balance as well, from a viewing perspective.

Brian:    Yeah. My job doesn’t matter if they don’t hit their tone.

Carrie:  Yep.

Brian:    You know, and that’s something obviously, Katherine more than anybody –

Carrie:  Oh, my gosh.

Brian:    She is –

Carrie:  So amazing.

Brian:    Entire movie, but, you know, that was something we talked about,  you know, every second of every day, since she signed on where she really didn’t, I mean, not she, like, we really didn’t want her to be, you know, too much. Because it’s like, the fine line of how she’s reacting in the movie of, her coming across like a psychopath. And not caring about what’s going on, as opposed to someone that you’re really kind of, start to feel that there’s this kind of, this undercurrent kind of, going on throughout the movie, where she’s really trying hard not to deal with it until like, she just absolutely has to deal with it in a very, like, extreme way. But you know, I think that’s, you know, I think those issues, you know, and that was one of the things Katherine, Charlie, Haley, and I talked about where, you know, if you can take out the explosions and replace it with everything from, you know, your friend moves away.

Carrie:  Yeah.

Brian:    Or they get hit by a car or XYZ kind of traumatic event. And can the movie still function, can the emotions of the movie still function? And, we didn’t really think about it, but, I think marketing brought it up, because not a lot of people directly reference that kids are exploding. I think every example of someone saying something about some exploding is in the trailer.

Carrie:  Yeah.

Brian:    You can’t really show kids exploding in the trailer. And so, there’s very few instances of people being like, “They’re exploding.”

Carrie:  Yeah.

Brian:    Because it is the thing that’s so obvious in the movie, visually, but also, you know, not wanting to go into the weeds at all about, not wanting it to be a mystery movie, but like, “Why are kids exploding?” You know, the movie really doesn’t give a shit, about the why. So much as it’s just this thing that’s happening and it’s not fair, it’s not anybody’s fault and it really sucks. And I think that’s the worst part of something tragic happening when you can’t point your finger at a sink hole opening up or, whatever this kind of thing might be. And it’s just, you know, you just get dealt the hand and have to deal with it. And that’s basically what the kids in the movie go through and learn in a very bloody fashion, I guess.

Rob:       And Brian, you’re riding this incredible streak right now, I can only think of two names Shane Black and Taylor Sheridan, and hopefully, that’s good company to lump you into, but just where you have so many projects in development, since 2015, I’m counting like eight or so that you’ve either written, adapted or are directing, but you’ve decided to hold on to this one, to direct and have this be your directorial debut. Was there a reason why Spontaneous, you wanted to go with this one out of the gate?

Brian:    I think in general, that’s what I want to do with everything. And I think the things before Spontaneous, it’s kind of like, selling those scripts, and not directing them, , it’s a little bit of earning your stripes to some degree where I’m sure, when I was younger, I could have said I wanted to direct things, but it probably wouldn’t have happened, and I definitely wouldn’t have made money. So I think it was the kind of, thing where, you know, there wasn’t a lot of conversation about me directing, you know, this movie, because I had had things produced, and I had, you know, I had been on sets, and I’m, the budget was not astronomical, and so I think, you know, selling those scripts gave me the ability to finally say, like, “I’m not selling this one to another filmmaker.” Like this is, you know, what I want to do, and that’s always been the goal, the directing has always been –

Rob:       Okay.

Brian:    The goal. And so I think, you know, kind of, and since Spontaneous, I haven’t set things up for other people to direct because that’s kind of, really my focus. And so, I think the things kind of like, pre and post, and there’s some things that kind of, came out after, that predated Spontaneous. But I think for me, it was about getting the chance to direct and then really earning your, way to direct instead of, you know, writing. You know, some of the things I’ve written are obviously, a much bigger budget and kind of, stomping my feet and saying, “I want to direct this.” And having no experience or right, to direct it, I guess, you know, beyond like white male privilege.

Carrie:  Yeah, it’s interesting, you say that, though, because Rob and I as we were talking, we’ve, like I said, have been talking about this all week. And so we would look back at some of the other works that you’ve had, and work on projects that you’ve had in the past. And it seems as though you’re drawn to those strong female leads in a lot of these things. Is there? I guess, is there any particular reason that that’s important to you? Like, I don’t know. I guess, you know.

Brian:    The honest answer is no. [Chuckling] I think one thing that is appealing about it is, and, you know, I knew Katherine a little bit before, Spontaneous kind of, showed up. And so just using Katherine, as an example, you know, some of these actresses are so just supernaturally talented.

Carrie:  Oh my gosh, she is. She really, really is.

Brian:    Just, you know, and as a writer, and as a director, it makes my life so much easier to cast someone like her.

Carrie:  Yeah.

Brian:    Because not only is she so great, but she does so much work. At being as great as she is, you know, it’s like every, you know, line of dialogue she has, there’s 1000 questions she’d ask about that line of dialogue. And that’s, you know, that’s catnip for me.

Carrie:  Yeah.

Brian:    As a filmmaker having a lead, that’s so invested. And so I think it really is less about wanting, you know, to write something with a male or female lead, and just, you know, looking at who’s working and it wasn’t written specifically for Katherine, but, you know, in my head, it’s, you know, it’s like, well, someone like Katherine can just, I just want to watch her, you know, all day, and, you know, in her shows and her movies and so, I think for me, it’s the excitement of working with, those actors, whatever gender they may be, and I think on the Spontaneous side, like the books, obviously, Mara, as well, but I think her voice is so specific and so interesting in a way that she’s not, you know, one of the things we talk about is that she’s pretty goofy, as a kid. Like, she’s not, you know, sultry, and she’s not nerdy, like, she’s not like the popular girl, but she’s not like, like, she’s kind of like this weird in between.

Carrie:  Amalgam of like, all the people in one that you want to be friends with. Cause she’s so –

Rob:       Carrie is just, she’s just describing herself now. [Chuckles].

Brian:    You know, she has like, this interesting journey where, you know, the star of the movie, she is really fully cooked.

Carrie:  Yeah.

Brian:    In terms of like, who she wants to be, and who she thinks she is. She’s very confident and very, just to herself, and the movie is basically about destroying that. And her kind of hitting, you know, rock bottom, and then figuring out how to, you know, kind of become, you know, Batman again at the end of the movie. And so, that felt like, such a fun and interesting journey for an actress to go on. And so, long way of answering the question, but I think, you know, it, for me, it was just, I don’t think it would have been as good as a guy.

Carrie:  I don’t think so either.

Brian:    And, but at the same time, I can see a lot of myself and my personality, in the character of Mara and in the character of Dylan and Haley’s character, and definitely in the parents. And so, you know, it’s this kind of, again, it’s like that cocktail, where I think sometimes, you know, the female lead has the absolute right ingredient, and sometimes it can feel like you’re doing it –

Carrie:  Intentionally.

Brian:    Just because –

Carrie:  Yeah.

Brian:    The moment.

Carrie:  Yep.

Brian:    As opposed to end, this just felt like, you know, specifically the right, like, it would have been stupid to make the movie otherwise, I think. So I think the stuff I’ve written, you know, I’ve written male and female leads. I don’t think, I honestly, I don’t think about it probably as much as I should. I feel like, it’s the story usually dictates pretty clearly. What it should be and nothing, it can’t change.

Carrie:  Yeah.

Brian:    Or hasn’t changed in the past, too. But, yeah, I don’t I guess I just haven’t –

Carrie:  Yeah.

Brian:    Thought that way before.

Carrie:  She felt like the perfect fit and the perfect choice. Like, I can’t really imagine anybody else doing exactly what she did, where I’m like, “Why are you making me feel calm?” Like, she’s making me feel calm in the sense of chaos. And like, I don’t know, she just brought so much so much to the movie. So it was, I don’t know, we’re glad that she was the lead.

Brian:    Yeah. We met right after, 13 Reasons Why, which was significantly heavier. And I think for her, , it was this real chance at being a very different character than she gotten to do in the past. But, also, she gets to, think the only thing she doesn’t really get to do in this movie is have like, a musical number, which is something I, I really regret it because we thought of how it could have done one and it would have been really great. But it was, I think for me, I love those lead roles, where you’re just kind of throwing every challenge at an actor, you know, it, that’s just heaven for them as well. And so, it really felt like, it was just the best working with her and just knowing as much as I could, you know, throw at her, you know, she was so excited to catch it and run with it.

Carrie: She’s like, “I’m going to lighten things up from 13 Reasons Why and just head to.” You know, “A movie about exploding kids.” You know, that feels about right after watching them.

Brian:    Yeah, it’s a very, it is a lot lighter.

Carrie:  It really is.

Brian:    Why, but yeah, and she’s, you know, she’s just the best and I’m, you know, I’m dying to work with her and everyone, again. Because, you know, it was, the cast really made it special, so, you know, low budget, but also has a component of effects like this movie does. You know, every actor kind of has to show up and be ready, like, on a moment’s notice, because if you have anyone that’s late or like a diva, like you can lose whole scenes of the movie –

Carrie:  Yeah.

Brian:    As you’re waiting. And just everyone in the whole cast from Katherine down to, you know, extras, you know, were always up for anything, especially for a movie where you’re getting drenched in warm cool aid.

Carrie:  Don’t tell me what it is, I believe that its guts. I definitely would like, the most believable blood spatter. So, you’re supposed to say it was real blood, and real kids exploding.

Brian:    It’s real, it’s real something.

Carrie:  It’s real, something. Yeah.

Brian:    There’s moments of, so it’s like, you know, it’s like a blood gun. And there’s different nozzles to get different wits. And then with, you know, CG, you just kind of, fill in the little ring that the nozzle doesn’t shoot.

Rob:       As long as you got shot with it at the wrap party, that’s all I want to know.

Brian:    I, so I got, I was the first person to get shot with it. And my assistant Max, and I, we were the ones that did all of the tests. And a big reason was because then I could go to Katherine and Charlie and this great actress, Kaitlin Barnard, she’s the girl that screams in the very first shot, and just be like, this is me getting hit like, because, again, it’s like a giant fire hose kind of contraption that they point at your face. And, you it’s terrifying, and but they have to act like they don’t know what’s coming.

Carrie:  That’s awesome.

Brian:    And so, seeing, you know, dozens of videos of Max and myself getting –

Carrie:  Blasted.

Brian:    And then it was helpful, too, because my first reaction after every time I got hit was laughing because it’s a very bizarre, funny, feeling. And, you know, again, cause we were, you know, really running with our schedule and our budget, almost every time there’s blood in the movie, it’s the first take, because we were like, rehearse it, and then shoot it. And then you know, we’d have to move on because it would be like an hour.

Carrie:  The cleanup.

Brian:    A cleaner.

Carrie:  Right.

Brian:    Showing back up with dry hair. And so getting to tell the actors like, “You’re going to want to laugh. Don’t.”

Carrie:  Don’t laugh.

Brian:    So much time and money. Like every now and again, like, in like, a background, you can see like, an extra, like, a drunk guy kind of, get hit and have like, that. I’ve seen the movie so many times, like, I can tell like, they have they’re having that moment where they’re like, really, you know, making like, a very stern face because they’re trying so hard but you know –

Carrie:  Not to laugh.

Brian:    But yeah, I absolutely got, you know, I guarantee no one on the movie got covered in blood more than myself. I get if you’re going to make this movie, like, that’s the most fun. I was dying to get soaked. And so I have a bunch of videos and photos of myself just getting wrecked. And then as a director to like, I hate monitors and I really would, I would get soaked directing, And will you know, go home to the hotel just covered in blood because there was so much of it but it was such a joy to just kind of, be in there with them and I think it helps the actors when they’re like, “Oh, this.” You know –

Carrie:  “You’re in it with us and.”

Brian:    Like you know, just loving that he’s getting you know trashed like, it I think it, not that I ever, there’s not a moment of like, any kind of, diva behavior but I think it helps set the mood of like, everyone’s like, because like, we know we’re signing up for like, no secret that we’re going to get messed up in this movie. So I think it really was a real, as traumatizing as the scenes were, it was a lot of fun.

Carrie:  Yeah.

Brian:    And everyone was just having a great you know, I think like, a Charlie’s Blood Angels and you know, everyone was just [Inaudible] [29:09-29:14].

Carrie;  Oh, you could definitely feel the energy I think, like to your credit to you could definitely feel the positive energy with the whole cast and the whole crew so that’s fantastic that you created that culture.

Brian:    Oh, yeah. No, I think that’s it sets the tone in the movie like you said, where you know, your eye for me is like trying to make the set emulate what I wanted the movie to feel like as much as possible. I’ve been on sets where people are just awful. And, you, I you feel it I think and you know, I think having a setback kind of, feels like, I’m a party but everyone’s doing their job. It’s so much more enjoyable and I think it really translates.  Again, like the like, you know, I don’t think there’s any funnier human than Rob. And so having him, you know, it’s somebody he cause he’s part of some of the really intense scenes in the movie and having him also be like, a steward of the tone of the movie. And understand like, I can’t, you know, it’s not meant to be as dark as it could be. But you know, we got to play it serious. But we’re also we’re having a good time on making it. It was it was a real treat.

Rob:       Yeah, speaking of time, Brian, I know we’re a little bit over. So, I do want to be respectful of your time.

Brian:    Am sorry because I’m rambling. Am sorry.

Rob:       No, no, no, no, it’s been a pleasure talking to you, I appreciate the extra we could go on for forever chatting with you. No, but I’m excited to see all of the acclaim that is going to come the way

Carrie:  People are going to love this.

Rob:       They’re going to love this. In a vacuum, it’s a fantastic.

Brian:    I haven’t talked to many, people that I don’t know, but have seen the movie. So it’s this kind of weird zone, like, I have no idea what people are going to think. And then on top of that, because we shot it a couple of years ago, I’m a, I have that weird feeling of like, I’m sending out my old homework.

Carrie:  Right.

Brian:    The part where I’m like, “I know so much more about everything now.” I know, even in the interim, like, I’ve become a dad. And I’m like, “Oh, I would have written way more stuff for paper.” And –

Rob:       Sure.

Brian:    I didn’t have point of view and now I do. And now I know that you know, that, like the best actors ever.

Carrie:  Yeah they are.

Brian:    So like, this kind of, it’s so nice to hear when people do kind of, a flick with it. Because for a long time, it’s just been, you know, like, on a hard drive somewhere where I’ve been like, “Well, hopefully, someone will see it.”

Carrie:  I can’t even imagine.

Rob:       Yeah and your style definitely comes through. It’s a unique style. And I’m looking forward to your, I know you have another project in the works as well, too, for once, you know, hopefully, once everything’s wrapped up, and you can move, keep moving forward with it safely. But, really excited to see all of your other directorial features as well.

Brian:    Thanks. And, yeah. I didn’t get shut down during COVID. But I definitely had a project that got the COVID brakes put on it. So we’re trying to figure out how to, you know, make movies and not die.

Carrie:  Right.

Brian:    You know, that’s the goal. But yeah, hopefully, you know, at some point in the next year, we can keep plugging along and making some new stuff.

Carrie:  Oh, that’s awesome.

Rob:       And we hope to have you back when that one hits theaters as well too.

Brian:    Of course!

Carrie:  Oh, that sounds great. Well, thanks, Brian, so much for catching up for us and, and everybody out there. And we’ll make sure that everybody that we know, at least is out there seeing it as well.

Brian:    I really appreciate that. Thank you, guys.

Carrie:  All right. Thanks, Brian.